Tuesday, April 20, 2021

Refuting and Correcting BYU’s False Doctrine on the Origin of Man #6 - Examining The 1910 Improvement Era editorial

(by Dennis B. Horne)


            An April 1910 Improvement Era editorial is often used by theistic evolutionists to give support to their evolution-gospel harmonization attempts. The editorial, after referencing the three main scriptural accounts found in the standard works (the books of Genesis, Moses, and Abraham), reads: “These are the authentic statements of the scriptures, ancient and modern, and it is best to rest with these, until the Lord shall see fit to give more light on the subject. Whether the mortal bodies of man evolved in natural processes to present perfection, through the direction and power of God; whether the first parents of our generations, Adam and Eve, were transplanted from another sphere, with immortal tabernacles, which became corrupted through sin and the partaking of natural foods, in the process of time; whether they were born here in mortality, as other mortals have been, are questions not fully answered in the revealed word of God.” The author of this editorial didn’t seem to know his scriptures very well.

            Only the year before (as this Improvement Era source notes) the First Presidency had already specifically given more light on the subject and indicated what “the revealed word” taught, in their declaration on “The Origin of Man,” (partially quoted below). Since then, other prophets and apostles have also shed more light on these scriptures—meaning we have access to more knowledge than just the figurative scriptural expressions describing the creation of Adam. That is, unless someone needs to use the first mentioned Improvement Era option for support of theistic evolution. These may be “questions not fully answered in the revealed word of God” but they are doctrines better answered in the revealed word than the first two options account for, and they are better clarified by many authoritative scripture expounders. None of the three options account for the doctrine of the Fall of Adam and Eve, and therefore do not harmonize with many scriptures.

Saturday, April 17, 2021

Bonus Blog for this series on Refuting and Correcting BYU’s False Doctrine on the Origin of Man - Responses from Readers So Far

          Friends, contacts, and associates have sent me emails with their reactions to this blog series, still in its beginning stages. I have removed names. Also, three comments were made at the end of blog #1, the Introduction, that readers may also want to see:


Nice! I think the Church could save itself a lot of grief if they would simply promote/encourage teaching the doctrine in the scriptures. Yet they don’t seem to want to do this.  Why?????????   Apparently this is one of those deep doctrines that no one is supposed to really know about? Yet, there it is, stated plainly in the scriptures. When I pointed this out in a gospel doctrine class a few years ago, few if any were aware of it and it created quite a stir. Everyone seems to acknowledge the fact we are spiritually BEGOTTEN sons and daughter of God, but no seems to want to understand or acknowledge what it means to be BEGAT spiritually or in mortality. It would sure be nice if one of our modern-day prophets, seers. and revelators would address this. If they did, I think it would put to rest some of the credence people give to evolution. 

Friday, April 16, 2021

Refuting and Correcting BYU’s False Doctrine on the Origin of Man #5 - Theistic Evolution—the false teaching that God used evolution to create mankind / Adam & Eve

(by Dennis B. Horne)

I heard one of our own eminent scientists say something to the effect

 that he believed more professors have taken themselves out of the Church

 by their trying to philosophize or intellectualize the fall of Adam

and the subsequent atonement of the Savior.

—President Harold B. Lee


When you find some of our Latter-day Saint teachers who

struggle to try to explain how the Creation and the Fall of man

 took place and can be harmonized with the evolutionary theory of science,

 the net result is that the teachings of the gospel are destroyed

and the theory of evolution prevails.

—President Harold B. Lee


            Because most evolutionists of the wider scientific world are also atheists, and because the theory of evolution doesn’t need God, BYU evolutionists have been obliged to imagine up an alternate theory of evolution that allows for God’s existence and involvement. So some of them have come up with various iterations of evolution that have God somehow directing it from beginning (whatever that is supposed to be) to end, hundreds of millions of years later. The prophets and apostles have rejected such nonsense the same as the rest of it, as the below quotations make abundantly clear:

Wednesday, April 14, 2021

Refuting and Correcting BYU’s False Doctrine on the Origin of Man #4 - Teaching Evolution as the Origin of Man to Latter-day Saints (Part B)

 (by Dennis B. Horne)


Brigham Young had the proper words for those intellectual Mormons

who generously offered to place their great minds at the disposal

of the Church and make the Gospel intellectually respectable:

“O puss, what a long tail you have got!”

—Hugh Nibley


            The below quotations are generally speaking on a broad level about the problems of teachings vain speculations and theories, and mixing them with the gospel. The quotations from the prophets are filled with warnings about accepting scientific teachings without due caution and wariness, and to avoid accepting unproven theories (defined as hypotheses, not as facts):


President Joseph F. Smith:

            It is to be feared…that in some places there is a growing disposition to involve our religious ideas and instructions in all sorts of speculations.  In religious technicalities there is always a distinct danger—a danger in which men undertake to solve the relation which we bear to God through the medium of human reasoning.  There are some who love to argue for argument’s sake—as willing to argue on the side of error as of truth—and it is very easy for such people to fall into the spirit of contention.  There are others who are prone to mysticism, and become easy victims of all sorts of sophistries.  There are people who are always in search of hidden meaning they imagine they see in the Scriptures, and they waste their lives on trivial and unimportant matters.

            There are facts enough in the history of God’s dispensation to man to occupy thoughtful minds, and there are always peculiar conditions to be found in the history of religion that can be made applicable to our social needs and individual wants; and the great fundamental truths of Holy Writ are the simplest and most easily understood.  If they have become difficult to human understanding, it is because religious speculators of the day have involved them in systems of philosophy that are not necessary to their appreciation or understanding. (Editorial Thoughts, “Simplicity in Religion,” The Juvenile Instructor, vol. XLVI [May 1911], no. 5, 268.)

Sunday, April 11, 2021

Refuting and Correcting BYU’s False Doctrine on the Origin of Man #3 - Teaching Evolution as the Origin of Man to Latter-day Saints (Part A)

 (by Dennis B. Horne)

 Reluctantly I alert you to the possibility that among your teachers

are one or two who deliberately inject students with diseased ideas.

The test depends on whether they are teaching about false standards

or theories or philosophies or whether they are advocates of them.

You must discern whether you are being taught about an

 ideology or proselyted to it.

— President Boyd K. Packer


            Church leaders have had much to say, by way of caution and warning and rebuke, to those Latter-day Saints who defiantly teach evolution as fact and truth instead of as an hypothesis or scientific postulate. The reason is because by teaching evolution as something it isn’t—truth—a professor or instructor can damage the faith of a student who believes in the teachings of the scriptures and the apostles and prophets. Below are statements of counsel these prophets and apostles have given to help students and others navigate the problems that occur when evolution is wrongly taught as fact/truth to faithful, believing Saints. This apostolic counsel applies to students being taught by both atheistic/agnostic professors/teachers, and also by those partially believing professors who foolishly teach macro-evolution as truth at BYU or elsewhere:

Wednesday, April 7, 2021

Refuting and Correcting BYU’s False Doctrine on the Origin of Man #2 - Sampling of Apostolic Quotations Refuting Evolution

(by Dennis B. Horne)

           I have thought it prudent, in this lengthy blog series, to place upfront a selection of representative quotations from prophets, seers, and revelators that refute evolution providing for the origin of man. By doing this, readers can perceive (in summary) the overwhelming power and unity of the views of these apostles, without having to read every word of every blog thereafter, although there will be great benefit for those who do. Some readers may not be familiar with the names of some of these apostles because they served in former generations, but they were great leaders and teachers for their time nonetheless. Today, some misled members agitate for ridding the church of the teachings (that they don’t like) of past apostles and prophets (by labeling it human tradition instead of revealed doctrine), but what was truth in their day remains true in ours, and always will be. These quotations will probably not cause any evolutionists to forsake their delusions and repent, but they may be of help to those the evolutionists seek to influence with their false theories:


Elder James E. Talmage:

            When I see how often the theories and conceptions of men have gone astray, have fallen short of the truth, yea, have even contradicted the truth directly, I am thankful in my heart that we have an iron rod to which we can cling—the rod of certainty, the rod of revealed truth. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints welcomes all truth, but it distinguishes most carefully between fact and fancy, between truth and theory, between premises and deductions; and it is willing to leave some questions in abeyance until the Lord in his wisdom shall see fit to speak more plainly. As the result of the combined labors of wise men I learn that man is but the developed offspring of the beast; and yet I read that God created man in his own image, after his likeness; and again, I stand on the word of God, though it be in contradiction to the theories of men. (Conference Report, October 1916, 75)

Tuesday, April 6, 2021

Introduction to this 55-Part Series on Refuting and Correcting BYU’s False Doctrine on the Origin of Man

 (by Dennis B. Horne)


“To one who has high spirituality,

faith in the gospel and in the doctrines of the Church

supersedes scientific theories and the philosophies of men.”

—Elder Harold B. Lee[1]


I have realized for a long time the need of spiritual protection,

protection in the teachings that we give to our young people in our

organizations, to save them from the false doctrines and teachings of the world.

—President Joseph Fielding Smith


There has developed in recent years what almost amounts to a cult

 in certain fields. This is a cult which also points the finger of scorn at believers

and would seek to make us ashamed of our faith.

It is one which would have us reject the doctrine of a special creation

and accept the unproven but time-worn theory

that all life evolved from lower forms, that worms and microbes

were our ancestors, and not God.

—Elder Mark E. Petersen

Thursday, April 1, 2021

Church Leaders and Vaccination

by Dennis B. Horne

             At this time when Covid 19 vaccination is being publicly debated, and when The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has just placed an official statement of policy in its handbook encouraging and recommending vaccination, I thought the below quoted item highly relevant.

            In 1900 when Smallpox was the fearsome pandemic, vaccination was also the subject of strong public disagreement. At that time, President Snow had the below editorial published in the Deseret News. This item shows a consistency between that day and ours regarding this matter, though no one is ever forced to do anything. (At that time the Deseret News was considered the voice of the church, which it no longer is and hasn’t been for a while, although it is still a business entity owned by the Church). November 17, 1900, Deseret News editorial:  

Wednesday, March 24, 2021

Hearing the Voice of the Lord in the Mind #6 - Imparting Needed Information

 (Compiled by Dennis B. Horne)

Elder Bruce D. Porter:

In the summer of 1976 I spent two months in the Soviet Union with 150 other American students studying Russian. When the program ended late in July, we were given a week free to travel at our own expense anywhere in Europe before catching a charter flight from Paris back to the United States. I spent that week on a shoestring budget visiting friends and converts in the Düsseldorf Germany Mission, where I had earlier served.

Unfortunately, after booking a second-class train ticket from Düsseldorf to Paris, I realized I was down to the equivalent of only $38 in cash. I had no traveler’s checks or credit cards. As the train sped toward Paris, I began to worry about how I would find a place to spend the night with so little money.

Arriving at the main train station in Paris, I got off the train with my luggage and looked around. I didn’t know anyone in France, and I didn’t speak the language. The sun was just setting, and I knew it would soon be dark. Suddenly I felt very lonely and somewhat anxious. I offered a simple, heartfelt prayer to the Lord: “Heavenly Father, please help me find a safe place to spend the night.”

Sunday, March 21, 2021

Hearing the Voice of the Lord in the Mind #5 - The Book of Mormon

 (Compiled by Dennis B. Horne)

            See the Introductory blog (#1) for explanation about this series on hearing the voice of the Lord in the mind. The below are accounts shared by those who have experienced this spiritual gift and have thereby been able to bless and enlighten others. Most of these are self-explanatory, but if desired readers wishing further context can (in most cases) go to the original source:


Elder Joseph F. Merrill of the Quorum of the Twelve (and son of Elder Marriner W. Merrill):

I was reared in a family where prayer, night and morning, was always the order. I have seen my father sometimes too busy to stop to eat his breakfast, but never too busy to kneel with his family in prayer before he left, to thank the Lord for the prospects of the day, for the rest of the night, and to ask his direction and help in the labors of the day. I was taught to pray at my mother's knee, and when I could say my own little prayers, I was taught that it was my prayer; it should be said in secret, or at least to myself.

So I knelt on one side of the bed, brother on the other side, every night. He never knew what I prayed for; certainly I did not know what he prayed for. But when I was about ten years of age, I began to pray for a special blessing. But I did not get an answer. Why? Father had taught us that there are three factors that must characterize every prayer that the Lord will answer: We must pray for real needs—and even grown-ups, he said, sometimes ask the Lord for things they do not get, because they ask foolishly—we must pray worthily, and we must pray with faith.

Thursday, March 18, 2021

Hearing the Voice of the Lord in the Mind #4 - Blessing, helping and Informing Mission Presidents and their Wives, Missionaries and others

 (Compiled by Dennis B. Horne)

            See the Introductory blog (#1) for explanation about this blog series on hearing the voice of the Lord in the mind. The below are accounts shared by those who have experienced this and have thereby been able to bless and enlighten others. Most of these are self-explanatory, but if desired readers wishing further context can (in most cases) go to the original source:


Elder Robert C. Gay:

            While serving as a mission president in Africa, I was forever taught this great truth. I was on my way to a meeting when I saw a young boy alone, crying hysterically on the side of the road. A voice within me said, “Stop and help that boy.” As quick as I heard this voice, in a split second, I rationalized: “You can’t stop. You will be late. You’re the presiding officer and can’t walk in late.”

When I arrived at the meetinghouse, I heard the same voice say again: “Go help that boy.” I then gave my car keys to a Church member named Afasi and asked him to bring the boy to me. About 20 minutes later, I felt a tap on my shoulder. The young boy was outside.

Sunday, March 14, 2021

Hearing the Voice of the Lord in the Mind #3 - Blessing and Helping Missionaries

(Compiled by Dennis B. Horne)

             See the Introductory blog (#1) for explanation about this 6-part blog series on hearing the voice of the Lord in the mind. The below are accounts shared by those who have experienced this spiritual gift and have thereby been able to bless and enlighten others. Most of these are self-explanatory, but if desired readers wishing further context can (in most cases) go to the original source:

Elder Vaughn J. Featherstone about Sister Featherstone:

            For the past two years our family has served a mission in Texas. It has been glorious and fulfilling beyond all expectations. When we first arrived, Sister Featherstone went to the Lord and said: “We don’t have much time. Please let me learn quickly so that the work will go forth.”

Wednesday, March 10, 2021

Hearing the Voice of the Lord in the Mind #2 - When Ministering and Serving

 (Compiled by Dennis B. Horne)

            See the Introductory blog (#1) for explanation about this series on actually hearing the voice of the Lord in the mind. The below are accounts shared by those who have experienced this and have thereby been able to bless and enlighten others. Most of these are self-explanatory, but if desired readers wishing further context can (in most cases) go to the original source:


Elder Neal L. Andersen:

            Years ago, an elderly stake patriarch with two failing heart valves pleaded for then-Dr. Russell M. Nelson to intervene, although at that time there was not a surgical solution for the damaged second valve. Dr. Nelson finally agreed to do the surgery. Here are President Nelson’s words:

            “After relieving the obstruction of the first valve, we exposed the second valve. We found it to be intact but so badly dilated that it could no longer function as it should. While examining this valve, a message was distinctly impressed upon my mind: Reduce the circumference of the ring. I announced that message to my assistant. ‘The valve tissue will be sufficient if we can effectively reduce the ring toward its normal size.’

Sunday, March 7, 2021

Hearing the Voice of the Lord in the Mind #1 - Introduction

(Compiled by Dennis B. Horne)

            This piece begins a 6-part series about leaders and members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints hearing the voice of the Lord in their mind. In saying this, I don’t mean one of the definitions of the “voice of the Lord”—that of feeling truth by the power of the Holy Spirit. I mean another narrower definition, of actually hearing a voice in the mind.

            The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are all perfect personages that can speak, and they all speak the same truths under the same circumstances. In other words, the resurrected Lord Jesus isn’t going to say something to someone that the Holy Ghost (or Holy Spirit) wouldn’t also say. So although I am calling this blog series, “hearing the voice of the Lord in the mind,” it could be either the Father, the Son, the Holy Ghost, or an angel (the spirit of a just person made perfect or a resurrected being) that is speaking, since they all speak by the power of the Holy Ghost for the Godhead in unity. And the Holy Spirit is always involved in conveying that voice.

            When the voice of the Lord speaks to the mind of a person, those words become scripture for that particular individual. (Only the canonized scriptures, or standard words, are written and binding scripture for members of the Church. When a Church leader or member speaks by the power of the Holy Ghost while giving a talk or lesson, that may be considered verbal scripture, but it is generally not written and is not canonized nor binding on members of the Church.)

Thursday, March 4, 2021

Remarkable Experiences in the Life of Elder Glen L. Rudd #37 - Elder Rudd Participates in the Sealing of one of Joseph Smith Sr’s Sons (4th)

(Compiled by Dennis B. Horne) 

            On July 26, 1996, while working in the sealing office of the Salt Lake Temple, I was making preparations for the sealings which were to take place in the evening.

            I noted that Elder M. Russell Ballard of the Council of the Twelve was to come in at 5:30 p.m. for a sealing. This is not particularly unusual for the Brethren to come, but it was unusual that he was going to do just one child-to-parent sealing.

            There was an envelope containing the information that he would use. I made the preparations, then removed the card from the envelope. I noted that a son born in 1797 in Turbridge, Orange County, Vermont was to be sealed to Joseph Smith, Sr. and Lucy Mack. He had never been named or sealed to his mother and father.

Tuesday, March 2, 2021

Remarkable Experiences in the Life of Elder Glen L. Rudd #36 - Elder Rudd Experiences the gift of Interpretation of Tongues

(Compiled by Dennis B. Horne)

            In 1964, I received an assignment to attend one stake conference in Samoa, two in New Zealand, and two in Australia. During the first month of that trip, I traveled with J. Vernon Sharp, during the second month with Junius Jackson, both from the Genealogy Committee. I represented the Welfare and Missionary Committees.

            After arriving in Samoa, we visited with the people, then participated in the various sessions of conference. It was difficult to find anyone who spoke English with the exception of the stake president, Percy, who was very fluent in English and was a great help to us in talking with the Saints.

            I was greatly impressed with the Saints in Samoa and felt tremendously handicapped having to use an interpreter. During the first couple of meetings, I went very slowly so the interpreter could keep up. It was difficult at first, but everyone seemed to understand his interpretation. And by the final Sunday session, we were able to speak at a normal rate. In the Sunday afternoon session, Brother Fitisemanu interpreted. I had just begun, when I noticed that everybody could understand me. So Brother Fitisemanu stopped interpreting. Many people throughout the large congregation nodded their heads as a signal that they understood.

Thursday, February 25, 2021

Remarkable Experiences in the Life of Elder Glen L. Rudd #35 - Some Highlights from Elder Glen L. Rudd’s Service as a General Authority

(Compiled by Dennis B. Horne)

            Elder Faust met with the Area Presidency and some of the office personnel the next day and announced that there were to be some changes in General Authorities and that the Brethren were creating a Second Quorum of Seventy. He also announced that Members of the First Quorum would be released at age 70 if they were still in the First Quorum. If they had a year or two to go in the Second Quorum, they were allowed to stay on. This applied very much to me because I was moved from the First Quorum to the Second Quorum, and even though I was almost 71, I was allowed to stay on until I completed at least five and a half years as a Seventy.



            On Saturday I received a phone call from Elder Doug Martin, telling me that the First Presidency had excommunicated George P. Lee for apostasy. George had been released from all of his responsibilities for some time. The Brethren felt that it was necessary to take further action. I know that this was a difficult thing for President Hinckley personally.



            General conference was enjoyable. I had no special duties. I was able to just go, smile, and enjoy what the Brethren did.

Monday, February 22, 2021

Remarkable Experiences in the Life of Elder Glen L. Rudd #34 - Elder Rudd’s Call as a General Authority (First Quorum of Seventy)

 (Compiled by Dennis B. Horne)

            On March 25, 1987, I received a phone call from President Thomas S. Monson while in the New Zealand Temple. After a few moments of greeting he said, "We need to get serious." He then notified me that President Ezra Taft Benson had authorized him to extend a call to me to become a member of the First Quorum of Seventy. Marva and I were in the office together when we received the call. President Monson spoke with Marva also. He gave us instructions to get tickets and fly home in time for the April conference.

            Six days later we were on our way home. When we left Honolulu we boarded a Boeing 747 and had seats in the first­class section. When we climbed the stairs into that area of the plane, we saw John R. Lasater and his wife and Douglas J. Martin and his wife, Wati. The six of us were the only ones in the first-class section. We all shook hands and smiled at the others. The six of us were on the same journey. No one dared to talk about why we were all headed to Salt Lake City. All of us had awkward smiles on our faces. Finally we began to talk and it wasn't long before we were quite certain of each other's assignment. Even though no one would say out loud why they were traveling to Salt Lake City.

            After being sustained and set apart I received an assignment to work in the North America West Area as a counselor to Elder Gene R. Cook. Elder Ted E. Brewerton was the First Counselor. I also was assigned to be in the Missionary Department where I worked with Elders J. Richard Clarke and Russell C. Taylor. That was the busiest of all the assignments I had. I worked every day and hardly took even a Monday off, unless it was necessary because of travel. This was indeed one of the busiest and most difficult years I spent as a General Authority.

Saturday, February 20, 2021

Remarkable Experiences in the Life of Elder Glen L. Rudd #33 - Elder Rudd Serves as President of the New Zealand Temple

(Compiled by Dennis B. Horne)

            July 1984 started like every other month, but drastically changed on the 6th. I was a little slow getting to work that morning because I had a bad night and was in the shower when President Gordon B. Hinckley called. I dressed quickly and rushed to his office where he called me to be the president of the New Zealand Temple. I accepted the call and then went to my office in the Church Office Building to recover. After a few short minutes, I went home, talked with Marva, then went to the airport and flew to Lubbock, Texas for a welfare assignment.



            On the 14-16 of August, the First Presidency held a seminar for the new temple presidents. It started at 8:00 a.m. in the auditorium, and all General Authorities were invited. President Hinckley, Elder Howard W. Hunter, and Elder Grant Bangerter were the speakers. We were in meetings the rest of that first day on the 22nd floor and over in the Salt Lake Temple. It was a very spiritual day, and it was wonderful to hear the General Authorities speak and teach us. There were 13 new temple presidents altogether. I remember hearing President Hinckley saying, "I feel a little sorry for you brethren who are going to leave your loved ones and families and go away to the different temples. The only one I don't feel sorry for is the one who is going to New Zealand. His is a very special assignment." I did find out that most everybody would have liked to have the assignment at the New Zealand Temple.

Tuesday, February 16, 2021

Remarkable Experiences in the Life of Elder Glen L. Rudd #32 - Brother Rudd’s Adventures with Traffic Tickets

 (Compiled by Dennis B. Horne) 

            While presiding over the Florida Mission, 80 cars were assigned to our mission, which meant that 161 missionaries had a car all the time. The rule to be in by 10:00 p.m. was strongly enforced and, for the most part, obeyed.

            However, one night I received a call about midnight from a young, inexperienced elder who was greatly distressed. His companion had been locked up in jail. They had missed a stop sign in a little town in northern Florida and were stopped and given a ticket. The policeman had demanded fifty dollars at that time, which the missionaries did not have, so the driver was locked up in jail.

            I told the young elder to go right to the home of the sheriff and tell him he had just locked up an ordained minister of the gospel. I continued, "Tell the sheriff that his mission president in Orlando demands that the elder be released immediately, that we will have him in court at the proper time. You might even tell him that the Speaker of the House of Representatives is an active Latter-day Saint and a good friend of the mission president, and that the Church does not allow this to happen."

Saturday, February 13, 2021

Apostles, Prophets, and God’s Former Priesthood Restriction

By Dennis B. Horne

“We do not expect the people of the world to understand such things, for they will always be quick to assign their own reasons or to discount the divine process of revelation.”

(President Spencer W. Kimball[1])

            The purpose of this piece is to substantiate the inspired genesis and continued correctness of the priesthood restriction on black male members (meaning African-Americans) until June of 1978. With the many confused or contrary voices of critics, activists, liberal academics and scholars, doubters, and dissenters now proclaiming the restriction was instituted by a prejudiced and political President Brigham Young, presentation of the abundant contrary evidence is both helpful and needful. Many lacking understanding have labelled the former restriction in the Restored Church of Jesus Christ as wrong and racist, and even call for the Church to issue a public apology (something that won’t happen). They suppose if they shout loud and long enough, or write enough articles and blogs, what they say will displace truth and become the main narrative.

            Because The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the Lord’s Church and Kingdom of God on earth, the truth is that the restriction was implemented by Him, and thereafter continuously maintained and sustained by Him, through His prophets, until He removed it by revelation in 1978. The following items reinforce and support this reality: 

Friday, February 12, 2021

Remarkable Experiences in the Life of Elder Glen L. Rudd #31 - Some of Elder Rudd’s Adventures as a Mission President

(Compiled by Dennis B. Horne)

            [Editorial Note: A couple of the below accounts are of miracles attendant to President Rudd’s mission service and priesthood administrations, though he writes them in a way that one might miss that fact unless reading carefully.]

            In the Florida Mission, we needed a new branch president in a small city in southern Georgia. My counselors spent most of their time working with the thirty-nine branches in the mission. They were familiar with the priesthood leaders and the good people who resided in those branches. I had also met many of them. I felt that a certain brother should be the new branch president, but my counselors objected. I said, "He is the best man there and would be a good branch president." My first counselor stated, "But he wasn't a full tithe payer last year." I responded, "I agree, we should not put in someone who doesn't pay a full tithing, but I would like to interview this man anyway. Until last year he always paid a full tithing. I think there must be some serious problem that we need to know about." Both of my counselors felt he definitely should not be called unless he was a full tithe payer. Every leader in every branch and in all of the four districts was a full tithe payer. In fact, we didn't even have anyone on our auxiliary boards who wasn't a full tithe payer. This was a most unusual situation and my counselors felt we would be making a mistake if we called the brother I felt we should call.

            As a result, we did not make the call. We waited a little while and the next time we were together, I brought it up again. I expressed my feeling that this brother should be the branch president. They still disagreed. So I said, "Why don't I at least interview him?"

Tuesday, February 9, 2021

Remarkable Experiences in the Life of Elder Glen L. Rudd #30 - Brother Rudd’s Call as a Regional Representative

(Compiled by Dennis B. Horne)

            Around 1964, the Quorum of the Twelve began to discuss the possibility of doing away with the priesthood committees and establishing a group of men who could become expert teachers in the priesthood responsibilities previously covered by the four different committees. In August 1967, the priesthood committees were dissolved and the brethren who served on them released, including myself.

            After everyone was released, a group of 69 men were called to be regional representatives, and their work began during September 1967. I was still in the mission field at that time, but was aware of the changes because Elder Lee and President Tanner had discussed them with me.

            The new regional representatives traveled to Salt Lake to receive special training from the Brethren. The first instruction given to this group of men by Elder Lee was that they were to become as home teach­ ers to bishops and stake presidents. It was explained that they were not assigned to make policies and decisions, but were to represent the Twelve and implement the training programs initiated by the Brethren. This new assignment and direction was difficult for some men. Elder Lee and President Kimball taught the regional representatives that they were coaches, not quarterbacks. They were to teach and train and allow the stake presidents to do the job of actually running the work of the Lord. They pointed out that the regional representatives were not administrators but were to do everything they could to help the stake and mission presidents do their work in the best possible way.

Sunday, February 7, 2021

Remarkable Experiences in the Life of Elder Glen L. Rudd #29 - Elder Matthew Cowley talks about his father (Elder) Mathias Cowley

(Compiled by Dennis B. Horne)

            [Editorial Note: Elder John W. Taylor (son of President John Taylor) and Matthias F. Cowley were close friends and were unfortunately unable to stop being involved with plural marriage after the second manifesto of 1904. Therefore, they had to resign from the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. Elder Taylor became bitter and was eventually excommunicated, dying out of the faith. Elder Matthias Cowley, despite being dropped from the Quorum, stayed true and faithful to the church and gospel, raising his family to be loyal to the Brethren. Some historians have claimed that Elder Cowley was disfellowshipped, but the below information corrects that misconception. Little is known today about Matthias Cowley’s life, with the below information provided by Brother Rudd and Elder Matthew Cowley being much of what is known today (outside of the suspect information published by cultist polygamous groups). I once had the idea of writing a biography of Matthias, and Brother Rudd offered to help me with it, but I found the plural marriage issues such a mess that I dropped the notion. Elder Rudd incorporated the below quotations from four other cited sources into his own writings about Matthias Cowley:]


            I thank God, my brothers and sisters and friends, that I was reared in a good home. I thank God that in that home I was taught that it was more important to be moral than to be careful, that I was taught from the days of my youth to honor the priesthood of Almighty God. I was frequently told, as were the rest of the members of my father's family, by our father, that if there ever came a time or an occasion to choose between loyalty to him and loyalty to the priesthood of God, always to choose loyalty to the priesthood of God. I thank God that such an occasion never arose. (Matthew Cowley, Matthew Cowley Speaks, p. 85)

Friday, February 5, 2021

Remarkable Experiences in the Life of Elder Glen L. Rudd #28 - Elder Rudd Shares that Elder Cowley Knew Life Is Eternal

(Compiled by Dennis B. Horne)

 [Editorial Note: This choice reminiscence contains much repetition with another.] 

            For 15 years I had the privilege and opportunity of being extremely close to President Matthew Cowley. I first met him in 1938 when I arrived in the New Zealand mission. He always had a positive and happy disposition. He rarely got angry. He had the ability to accept life and to adjust to all situations. He had the greatest sense of humor of any person I ever met. I think the most important part of his personality was his great ability to see interesting, exciting, humorous aspects of every occurrence of his life. He did not have the ability to allow himself to get depressed. However, in the last two or three months of his life, I saw a great change come over him. He always joked and pointed out to me and others the humor in the normal events that took place in our lives.

            Even with his great call to the apostleship, he continued to carry the heavy loads of the Church, but never to feel weighed down with the problems of the whole Church. He still worried about individual people and their concerns in life. He would rather bless the sick sister than  solve some of the pressing problems that weighed heavily upon the Brethren. He had respect for other men’s ability and earnestly worked toward helping individuals solve some of their personal problems.

            Up until October conference of 1953 he lived in his rather normal, happy fashion, but something happened to President Cowley during the conference. He had a rather light hearted spirit about him and had humorously talked about two or three different subjects he might speak about during conference. He always wanted to give a talk on baptism.  He evidently had some great thoughts that had never been expressed about the principle of baptism. As conference approached, he told me two or three times, “I believe I’ll say what I want to say about baptism this time.” And so, I was somewhat surprised when he delivered a different talk. It was his old theme song and as I read it now, I think it was a farewell address. When the conference was over, he still had his sense of humor, but there had been a decided change in him. He told me he didn’t think he’d live long and we had quite a number of discussions about life and how long men ought to really live.

Wednesday, February 3, 2021

Remarkable Experiences in the Life of Elder Glen L. Rudd #27 - Great Events in the Life of Matthew Cowley, as Told by Elder Glen L. Rudd (Part 6)

(Compiled by Dennis B. Horne)

Elder Matthew Cowley, member of the Quorum of the Twelve (Part 3)

             [Editorial Note: This is the last of a 3-part series looking at highlights from the years Elder Matthew Cowley spent at a member of the Quorum of the Twelve. These are also part of a larger series of 6 posts reviewing interesting events in the life of Elder Cowley, and those are in turn part of a larger series of blogs about Elder Cowley and Glen Rudd. Elder Rudd spent much in time and energy and resources seeking to keep the memory of his remarkable mission president alive; especially as a way to strengthen faith in others. Glen Rudd knew that other people’s faith in Christ could be strengthened by reading or hearing about Elder Cowley’s faith and the miracles that followed it. He healed the sick, caused the deaf to hear and the blind to see, and was involved with raising the dead; all because of his great faith in God.]

             Miracles are here, and they are here to stay. They are not just things that happened in Bible days or in Book of Mormon days. They are here now and they do regularly occur.

            Not long ago there came into my office a man who is in his late forties. I had a nice friendly visit with Joe. We talked about a wonderful event that occurred early in his life. Forty years ago, Elder Matthew Cowley and I went to the Salt Lake County hospital to bless a little Joe who was dying with polio. He was in an area restricted for polio patients. After we had scrubbed up and put on gowns and hoods, with everything covered but our eyes, we were escorted down the long corridor of the hospital to give this little eight-year old boy a blessing. His mother had begged us to come, and before we went in she pleaded, "Don't let my little boy die."

Monday, February 1, 2021

Remarkable Experiences in the Life of Elder Glen L. Rudd #26 - Great Events in the Life of Matthew Cowley, as Told by Elder Glen L. Rudd (Part 5)

(Compiled by Dennis B. Horne)

Elder Matthew Cowley, member of the Quorum of the Twelve (Part 2) 

            [Editorial Note: This is a continuation, as part 2, of 3 posts about Elder Cowley as a member of the Quorum of the Twelve, out of a series of 6 delving into highlights of his life. These in turn are among others that touch on interesting and unusual experiences recorded by Elder Rudd regarding his friend and mission president. There may be a little repetition.]

            Brother Cowley was marvelous, just a great man. We talk about miracles. There were many miracles. I was blessed to be a part of some of them. It got to be where he could hardly go anywhere to bless the people without me or one of the other missionaries. He would come to my office at my poultry business where I was always busy trying to get orders out and wait an hour or an hour and a half till I could clean up and go with him to the hospital or to wherever someone was waiting for a priesthood blessing. It was wonderful to know how he loved to bless people.

            The phone used to ring on some of those occasions. It would be the secretary to President George Albert Smith. She’d say, “Brother Rudd, President Smith’s trying to find Brother Cowley. Have you got him down there?”

Friday, January 29, 2021

Remarkable Experiences in the Life of Elder Glen L. Rudd #25 - Great Events in the Life of Matthew Cowley, as Told by Elder Glen L. Rudd (Part 4)

(Compiled by Dennis B. Horne)

Elder Matthew Cowley, member of the Quorum of the Twelve (Part 1) 

            [Editorial Note: This material continues the reminiscences of Elder Glen L. Rudd relating to his former mission president, mentor, and close friend, Elder Matthew Cowley. Missionary Rudd had returned home to Salt Lake from New Zealand at the start of WWII, married, started a poultry business, and been called as a young bishop. President Cowley remained in New Zealand, at the First Presidency’s request, until the end of the war and then returned home at which time he was called to the apostleship. There is a little repetition in a few stories.]

             In early 1938, Matthew Cowley—a practicing attorney in Salt Lake—was walking down Main Street, about a half a block from the Brigham Young Monument, where he bumped into President David O. McKay, then a counselor in the presidency of the Church. President McKay said to him, “Matt, how would you like to be the president of the New Zealand Mission?” Brother Cowley said, “I wouldn’t like it, but if I was called properly, I would be glad to go.” That was the end of their conversation.

            The very next day Brother Cowley’s phone rang and it was President David O. McKay. He said, “Brother Cowley, this is David O. McKay and this is your official call to preside over the New Zealand Mission. We need you there in about six weeks.”

Tuesday, January 26, 2021

Remarkable Experiences in the Life of Elder Glen L. Rudd #24 - Great Events in the Life of Matthew Cowley, as Told by Elder Glen L. Rudd (Part 3)

 (Compiled by Dennis B. Horne)

Mission President Matthew Cowley (Part 2) 

            [Editorial Note: Below is a continuation of reminisces by Glen Rudd about his personal experiences with his mission president Matthew Cowley, who, as Brother Rudd explained, was a somewhat different but wonderful mission president, unlike what is usual today. Most of the material is self-explanatory; there may be a little repetition present.]

             Because of his great faith, many wonderful things continued to happen to President Cowley—and also to me—after our missions. I was a very young bishop in those days, and many times he and I visited the homes of people who had asked for priesthood blessings. After we had blessed people, President Cowley would fast and pray for them and return again and again to those who needed him.

            We saw great miracles happen in those days. My testimony to you is that miracles do happen! They are happening on the earth today, and they will continue to happen, particularly to those who believe and have great faith. Miracles occur frequently in the lives of humble, fine Latter- day Saints who have the faith to make them possible. My feeling is that the greatest of all miracles is the one that happens in the life of a person who really learns how to pray, who exercises faith to repent, and who lives the gospel in a simple and obedient way.

Sunday, January 24, 2021

Remarkable Experiences in the Life of Elder Glen L. Rudd #23 - Great Events in the Life of Matthew Cowley, as Told by Elder Glen L. Rudd (Part 2)

 (Compiled by Dennis B. Horne)

Mission President Matthew Cowley (Part 1)

            On Friday morning about 7:30 A.M. on November 25th, 1938, the Mariposa sailed into Auckland, New Zealand Harbor and came to a stop. There were four of us in our room. As we were gathering our coats and other things together we heard a man say, “Are there any Mormon’s anywhere around here?” We turned and there standing in the door of our room was President Matthew Cowley.

            This was the first time that any of us had ever seen him. I remember that morning as if it was yesterday. He had on a coat that didn’t match his pants. He had a pair of crepe soled shoes on and a nice tie with a big knot. I was twenty and he was forty-one years of age. This was a great moment in my life because it was the beginning of a special friendship that lasted for the next fifteen years and beyond.

            Matthew Cowley was a most unusual and marvelous individual. His personality was excellent. He seemed to love everybody. He seemed to be patient with everybody and particularly with the faults of young missionaries. He never seemed to lose patience with the saints or elders. He had the ability to use the English language in such a way that every missionary understood who he was, what he was, and what he wanted us to be. His Maori language was so correct and pure that all of the Saints and many non-members gave attention when he spoke.

Friday, January 22, 2021

Remarkable Experiences in the Life of Elder Glen L. Rudd #22 - Great Events in the Life of Matthew Cowley, as Told by Elder Glen L. Rudd (Part 1)

 (Compiled by Dennis B. Horne)

 Matthew Cowley’s First Mission

            [Editorial Note: This material begins a sub-series of posts relating highlights from Elder Matthew Cowley’s faith-promoting and interesting life experiences, as shared by Elder Rudd. There is some limited unavoidable repetion:]

             I soon learned that my mission president, Matthew Cowley, was a genuine, lovable man—there was nothing very strict or demanding in his way of life. He was a very special president. During his first mission 20 years before, he had served in New Zealand for five full years. He arrived in that mission just as he turned 17 years of age and was 22 when he returned home and had not yet finished high school. His mission was very eventful.

            The young Elder Cowley started out among the Maori people and spent most all of his mission with them. He learned the Maori language quickly and well. In fact, it was said he spoke the language better than any of the Maoris and had a more excellent vocabulary than anyone. His English vocabulary exceeded anything I had ever known, and I was in a position to know that his Maori must have been equally as good.

Wednesday, January 20, 2021

Remarkable Experiences in the Life of Elder Glen L. Rudd #21 - Elder Rudd Reminisces about the WWII Evacuation of U.S. Missionaries from New Zealand

(Compiled by Dennis B. Horne)

            On the 15th of October 1940 a cable was sent from Church headquarters to President Matthew Cowley. The cable instructed him to send all missionaries home on the next possible ship leaving the country. For almost fourteen months, New Zealand had been at war.

            The government allowed sixty-five missionaries from out of the country to labor there. This number included President and Sister Cowley and their daughter, so the most we could ever have in the mission at any one time was sixty-two missionaries. After war was declared, we received fewer and fewer new missionaries, and almost monthly one or two elders would return home. Consequently, the missionary work was gradually being curtailed. Fortunately, there was excellent local priesthood leadership in the thirteen districts and eighty-four branches of the mission.

            During the months after New Zealand went to war, all sorts of defense measures were taken. The missionaries laboring at the mission home became air raid wardens and we were instructed what to do in case of a raid.

Monday, January 18, 2021

Remarkable Experiences in the Life of Elder Glen L. Rudd #20 - Elder Rudd Reminisces about a Maori Friend, an Evil Spirit, and Cannibalism

(Compiled by Dennis B. Horne)

           While serving in Gisborne, I lived in the home of a fine Maori man named Henere Hamon, or "Pop," as he was better known to everyone. He was nearly seventy years old and lived alone; his wife had passed away and his children were all married, with the exception of one boy who was serving in the war.

            For years, missionaries lived in Pop's home. One room in the front of the house, which housed only a double bed and a large chair, belonged to the missionaries. There was also a large table and two benches in the kitchen. Other than that, the house was virtually empty, except for Pop's small bedroom, and bed which was almost on the floor. As far as I know, he had only one pair of pants, one pair of boots, a couple of shirts, one old coat, and a funny old hat that he wore everywhere.

            Pop was the district president. He rode his bicycle all over the east coast visiting the saints and carrying out his Church responsibilities. If he had to travel more than thirty miles, he was generally able to arrange for a member to take him in the car.

            Pop was a man of great faith and appreciated his priesthood. Once I asked him if he wouldn't like to be a high priest someday. And he replied, "Oh no, I'm not good enough to even be an elder, let alone a high priest." To me, Pop was one of the greatest and most humble priesthood holders I ever knew.

Friday, January 15, 2021

Remarkable Experiences in the Life of Elder Glen L. Rudd #19 - Elder Rudd Goes Fishing with President Cowley

(Compiled by Dennis B. Horne)

            Between the north and south islands of New Zealand is a very rough body of water known as Cook Strait. Out of this rough water are many small and beautiful islands, one of which is D'Urville Island, where lived a large group of wonderful Maori people, mostly members of the Church. They comprised an excellent branch of the Church and lived the gospel well. All were related to one another and were mainly professional fishermen.

            The missionaries were allowed to visit the island once a year during the Christmas holidays, but two of my companions and I were unable to go. Some months later, however, President Matthew Cowley gave me that opportunity, while he and I were on a trip to perform a rather distasteful duty [interviewing and disciplining a wayward missionary that had to be sent home]. When we had finished our work in the city of Wellington, both of us felt spiritually down. He said to me, "Let's go fishing!" I immediately agreed. I had never had the chance to go fishing as a young boy because of my bad headaches which came when least expected.

            We left Wellington on the inter-island steamer that sailed between the north and south islands. The only way to get off the ship anywhere near D'Urville Island was to climb down a rope ladder lowered from the side of the ship at about two o'clock in the morning, when it was the calmest. This little maneuver didn't frighten me too much until the time to perform it approached.

Wednesday, January 13, 2021

Remarkable Experiences in the Life of Elder Glen L. Rudd #18 - Elder Rudd Shares Examples of Repentance and Forgiveness Among the Maoris

 (Compiled by Dennis B. Horne) 

            [Editorial Note: Below are experiences told by Elder Rudd and Elder Cowley about the Maori people (and others) repenting quickly and sincerely. If readers would like to watch Elder Cowley’s general conference talk where he discusses the same subject, copy and paste the following link into your browser: https://catalog.churchofjesuschrist.org/assets?id=33ed0c94-1a66-4c72-947e-d7caf824a051&crate=0&index=0 ]

             Living among the Maoris of New Zealand was an educational and faith-promoting experience for me. I soon learned a little bit about transgressions and a lot about repentance. I also discovered that forgiveness is a gift possessed in great measure by the Maoris.

            One of my best Maori friends, the father of ten children, deserted his wife and family and ran away with another married woman. This was a staggering blow for the branch of the Church they were both members of. My friend was divorced from his wife and he and the married woman were both excommunicated. They continued to live in the same Maori village, only a few houses from where his former wife and children lived. While he had done a terrible thing he was not ostracized by the Church members, which included nearly the whole village.

            He continued to attend Church though he was no longer a member. After a period of time he truly repented. He was rebaptized into the Church and eventually received a restoration of his priesthood blessings. He worked doubly hard in the branch to make up for his transgression. Most  everyone forgave him and they continued to love him.

Monday, January 11, 2021

Remarkable Experiences in the Life of Elder Glen L. Rudd #17 - Some of Elder Glen L. Rudd’s Early Missionary Experiences

(Compiled by Dennis B. Horne) 

            [Editorial Note: The below is a selection from the autobiographical writings of Glen L. Rudd, a former member of the First and Second Quorums of the Seventy, now deceased. The setting is the beginning of his first mission to New Zealand, where he learned many important spiritual and life lessons. His mission president was Matthew Cowley, who was later called into the Quorum of the Twelve.]

             Very early in my mission, an old Maori man met me on the street of Hastings, New Zealand, and tried to give me a New Zealand coin worth about 50¢. I had more than $50 in my pocket, and was a rich American boy without a knowledge of who I really was. I refused to take the money. When my companion caught up with me, I told him about the old Maori man, and he said, “Go get him and take the money.” I said, “I don't want his money. I've already turned him down, and I think I made him feel bad.”

            Elder Dastrup said, “Run down the street, catch up with him, hold out your hand, and do the best you can to tell him you want that money.” I reluctantly did what he said. The old brother gave me his coin which was the last money he had in the world. He was happy and shed a tear. When I got back to Dastrup, I was embarrassed. He said, “What you just did is let him give a servant of the Lord the last money he had. He now has faith that the Lord will take care of him.” That was one of the first experiences I had in finding out I was not just a former cheerleader from Utah, but a respected servant of the Lord. . . .

Saturday, January 9, 2021

Remarkable Experiences in the Life of Elder Glen L. Rudd #16 - Glen Rudd with Elders Matthew Cowley and John A. Widstoe

 (Compiled by Dennis B. Horne) 

            While serving as a bishop, I went to the temple to be a witness for a young couple who had been raised in my ward. I had known them a good many years and was delighted to give them their temple recommends and to attend the temple with them. Neither of their parents were able to go and so it was a great privilege for me to go with them.

            Elder John A. Widtsoe of the Council of the Twelve had agreed to perform the marriage. After speaking to the young couple he began the sealing ceremony. Almost immediately I recognized that he had left out an important part of the ceremony. I looked around the room and no one else seem to have noticed the error. I wondered what would happen if I stopped him. I did it anyway. He turned to me and said, "Bishop, have I made a mistake?" and I said, "Yes, I think you left out part of the ceremony." He immediately apologized and said, I will start over. After, he thanked me for being brave enough to interrupt him. I am grateful and so were the couple.



            One day in 1952, Brother Cowley called me and asked if I would be willing to drive him and Elder John A. Widtsoe to Delta, Utah. They had been assigned to reorganize the stake presidency and neither of them felt like driving. I arranged my affairs and drove them down on Saturday morning. We had a lovely ride. I had met Brother Widtsoe a few times and knew him to be a delightful person, but I did not realize what a fine sense of humor he had.

Thursday, January 7, 2021

Remarkable Experiences in the Life of Elder Glen L. Rudd #15 - Elder Glen L. Rudd Reminisces about His Father

 (Compiled by Dennis B. Horne)

            My father was twenty-six years old when I was born and I was forty-six when he died in 1964. He was a tall, thin man; always clean and neatly dressed. Father was very orderly in his way of life. He was a good student of world conditions. I remember that he read fine books. However, he never attended high school or college. I am not sure that he even finished all of grade school. He lost his hearing when he was fourteen or fifteen years of age. The first time he set foot on a college campus was at Iowa State University in Ames, Iowa, where he was invited to speak about the poultry industry in America.

            When he was just a teenager, Father started a business, then lost everything and started over again—all by the age of nineteen.

            This time he began to prosper and he enjoyed being his own manager. After several successful years in the poultry and fish business, he sold his enterprise to the Utah Poultry Cooperative Association and became the manager of their poultry division. For many years he was one of three men in charge of the cooperative. He eventually left that line of work and went back into business for himself as a turkey broker.

            I have always felt that he was the father of the poultry business in the state of Utah. He supplied poultry for Utah and most of the surrounding states for many years. He built the first turkey processing plants in Tremonton, American Fork, Moroni and Ephraim, Utah.

Tuesday, January 5, 2021

Remarkable Experiences in the Life of Elder Glen L. Rudd #14 - Elder Rudd with Dr. Norman Vincent Peale and Sir Walter Nash

(Compiled by Dennis B. Horne)

            In April of 1975, Dr. Norman Vincent Peale of the Marble Collegiate Church, and his wife, spent more than two hours with me on Welfare Square. We had a lovely visit and I showed him the storehouse and other facilities. He sat in my office and asked questions. At the conclusion of the visit, Dr. Peale expressed his deep feelings about what he had seen. He wrote on his referral card that day, "Here is one of the greatest demonstrations of practical Christianity I have ever seen."

            Dr. Peale was one of America's most famous Christian ministers. The following is an excerpt of his broadcast on WOR Radio, New York City, on April 27, 1975. The title of the broadcast was, "Strong Faith Always Wins Over Difficulties." It gives an idea of how Dr. Peale felt after a visit to Salt Lake City:

             ... So when you're in difficulty, strive by prayer, by good deeds, by love, to feel the presence of God.

            Now, I had a difficulty I'd been struggling with for two or three weeks. It's not necessary to go into it—it's irrelevant, but to me it was a difficulty and a real one, and I put into practice all of these procedures that I've mentioned. In fact, this sermon really comes out of personal experience.

Sunday, January 3, 2021

Remarkable Experiences in the Life of Elder Glen L. Rudd #13 - Elder Rudd Tells a Story about Elders Packer and Bednar

 (Compiled by Dennis B. Horne)

            June 4th, 2009: Elder Harvey Gardner was in my office for a visit and had a desire to see President Packer, so we dialed his office and asked if he was in and could see Brother Gardner. Less than a minute later his secretary called back and said, “Come right now.” So, I took Harvey Gardner over to Brother Packer‘s office.

            President Packer was very relaxed and we had a nice visit. He and Harvey have worked together for many years helping the Navajo and other Indians down on the reservations. Harvey has served as a bishop, stake president, regional representative, and area authority.

            During the course of the conversation, Harvey mentioned something about a trip Brother Packer had in Germany. Brother Packer said, “Let me tell you the story.”